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Evening all,
Can someone please explain to me the difference between the various Filarmonicas. I've seen Doble Temple, Novodur and Muletta so far, I'm sure there are others. The thing is, apart from the etchings, they all seem to be roughly the same. The other thing I'd like to know is do the numbers 13 and 14 simply signify the width of the razor? The 14s I've seen all seem to be 1" and the 13s 6/8-7/8.
13 and 14 are razor blank size denotations (most likely produced by the Herkenrath forge (Solingen, Germany)), and as far as I'm aware the main difference between the various Filarmónicas are the gold washes and colours of the scales. But then again, I'm not a Filarmónica expert.
The SRP library says they're from Spain, but not sure if the steel is produced there or if that's just that their business was based there.
I would also be keen to learn more about the difference of the models and if all their steel came from the same place, had the same or differing qualities etc.
Here is copy of a great post describing the differences, it was done by @celticcrusader who is a member here:
Filarmonica date & model Info.
I found this piece of Info which I'm sure most Filarmonica owners and future owners will find of interest I know I do.
. First Generation: Jose Monserrat Pou's initial offerings - ~1915 - 1967.
Pre-1950 versions will NOT have "FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA / MADE IN SPAIN" stamped on the rear of the tang
Three main iterations of the "Especial" model (in order; transitional anomalies exist)
Tang shows curved Jose Monserrat Pou with stylized eagle (IMPERIAL brand), tall & vertical "14"
Tang shows IMPERIAL brand, straight Jose Monserrat Pou, short & horizontal "14" with lyre
Tang returns to curved Jose Monserrat Pou & tall/vertical "14", but with "FILARMONICA"
These would also have the 'musical' Especial/Filarmonica gold seal on the blade face
New white box with "Especial Para Barbas Duras" - the original EPBD
The original "Doble Temple"
Tang similar to Especial with curved Jose Monserrat Pou, tall & vertical "14", and "FILARMONICA"
A different gold seal on the face, most notable attribute being the "JMP" initials in the center
Collectors will refer to this as a "JMP signature blade", the initials were later replaced by the lyre
See my earlier image for a pristine example; these are more rare and more highly valued by some
The rest of the gold seal might have been generic; I've found a Carl Friedrich Ern Crown & Shield with the same seal design
The "Medallon Taurino" limited edition, bullfighting series was introduced
They're just Doble Temple 13s with six bullfighting themes on the face
Banderillas, Capote, Estocada, Cogida, Muleta, and Rejoneo
Three total iterations found across three generations of Filarmonica (anyone up to collect all 18?)
The "Sub Cero" was a cryo-treated Doble Temple. Tang stamp conventions apply. It stuck around into the next generations.
2. Second Generation: I call it the "Filarmonica Aesthetic Period" (FAP...fapfapfapfapfap...) - 1967-1979.
The company seems to have decided that pretty makes profit, and thus updated their look.
New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
The Especial blossomed into the more ornate Especial Para Barbas Duras with laser etching and tang grommet.
The Doble Temple continued as the brand's steadfast workhorse, steady as she goes.
Four more models appeared
TRIDUR Especial Para Barbas Duras - Trivalent chromium coating for less corrosion. It's harder to hone until the outer coating is removed. Name is on the face, otherwise identical to the EPBD.
Novodur Para Profesionales - not much known, though the marketing goal is clear. Notable are the embossed scales from the EPBD, third pin in the scales, model on the tang, and gold seal similar to Sub Cero
Especial Para Corte de Pelo - narrow EPBDs made for hair cutting with attachment. "Corte Cabello" on the face.
INOX / INOXIDABLE - stainless steel Doble Temple. I don't like stainless, so not much to say there. Most were 3rd gen and don't bear JMP's name.
3. Third generation: Jose Monserrat Pou passed away sometime in the late '70s - early '80s. His son took over for a brief period, apparently continuing to sell out the old stock of materials. This is a murky period which I avoid. Straight razors were banned from Spanish barbershops in 1985 (Hepatitis & HIV?) and safety/cartridge razors had taken over worldwide, so the diminished demand (along with JMP's absence) had a direct affect on production. Many people have declared success with these razors, but they are considered hit or miss by collectors.
Key identifier is JMP's name having disappeared from the blades altogether
These are the razors you see in black "Sello Oro" boxes
Quality control was on the fritz with blade faces not matching tang stamps and other issues (lots of these on ebay from Japan)
4. Fourth generation: JMP's son died shortly after his father, then the daughter took over. The company closed a few years later in 1990.
Very hard, brittle steel sourced from Pakistan - takes an edge, but falls apart sooner than expected
No tang marks, only perfunctory "FILARMONICA -DOBLE TEMPLE-" etched on the face
Some have Sello Oro packaging or just plastic sleeves
Simply avoid these unless you're a collector
The first gen blades are considered by some to be the highest quality Filarmónica produced. I believe this is partially a matter of nostalgia, because when examining the first two generations historically & practically (on hones and face), there doesn't seem to be a difference between them with regard to steel and grinding. There is no reason that the earliest third gen razors shouldn't perform as well as previous generation blades, but any razor lacking Jose Monserrat Pou's name is a gamble. For those of you who got the good ones, congratulations! But caveat emptor to anyone on the hunt for a new Filarmónica.
I recently bought a Filarmonica 13B (Japanese ebay seller's notation). It's in the black "Sello Oro" box. The gold wash isn't exactly parallel to the spine or blade.
I tried honing it with lapping film, going back to 30 micron and it didn't shave. Then I used Naniwas, starting at 1K. No go. I took it to my more experience friend who tried Shaptons, Escher, Jnat, the works. It still doesn't shave. It took a long time to get the scratch pattern smooth and still the edge of the edge look rough. Very weird. I hope I don't have to ask the seller to take it back and give me a refund. I'm sending it to Glen Mercurio in the morning to see what he can do.
The blade doesn't look warped. Typical very thin grind of Filarmonicas, but it does't feel quite right on the hones.
The Sello de Oro generation are a bit of a hit and miss unfortunately, I own one and it is as good as any other, but it did require tape when honing to get it to shave ready.
I am going to go out on a limb here, but I assume most Sello de Oro are fine but the few duds there are get a lot of press. Especially because everyone has very high (well deserved) expectations for Filarmonica razors
Tried tape, but still didn't work. Maybe Glen can figure it out for me. I hope I don't have dud.
Oh, that does not sound too good.
May be worth just sending it back to the vendor...
That's what I was thinking.
i bought 3 of them in very bad condition,on ebay, so much rost, i clean them up and honed them, i think they are one of the best shaver or i have become better with honing LOL i will post some pics soon
I have 4 older Filarmonica 14's that are excellent. The !3 is new old stock, but is a dud.
I also recently purchased a #13 sello oro in the sub cero model. NOS buth the gold wash is off center like you stated in yours. It did hone up quite nicely, i just havent got around to that one to shave with. I also have a JMP #14 doble temple in the mail, and a 6/8 EPBD. The EPBD has a small chip in it so i have been holding off on messing with it for now. If physics and multivariable calculus didnt take up so much dang time id have all kinds of shave ready razors to play with!
I have the #13 Sub Cero as well, and it is a completely different beast in my opinion from my other Filly's. Much smaller, much lighter, no JMP stamp, and I remember when I got my first #14 DT, I thought there was something wrong it was so much bigger. Now I realize, I essentially have two different brands of razors...just my take, but they're just different blades AFAIC, with the older JMP blades being far superior.
I keep hearing that, I cant wait for it to get hear! Its own its way from Argentina, and as far as I know its in the US now, so only a few days left hopefully. I have only one itch left and then im done for a while, and that is the infamous WB The Celebrated FBU. I have one that was cracked very badly, but it is just not the same. Ive seen the prices quadruple in the last 2 years! One day ill stumble on a BIN for an absurdly cheap price, fingers crossed!
Please try to shave with it and let me know if you can get it to shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
They may look different, but they shave very well. TheGentlemansDen honed it up, took a beautiful edge, and it does shave extremely nicely. I would compare the shave of it more to a very nice TI then I would to a DT. It's a great blade, no doubt about it...just different. Looking forward to reading what you have to say about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhop66
Well i will try this afternoon, I have to study for a physics test which starts at noon so i wont be shaving this morning. I just pulled my Sub Cero out for inspection and it cuts my arm hairs off effortlessly at every point along the bevel. I do not know much about these Fili's other than i like them a lot. I have steered away from the sello oro now that i am more informed on the subject. It seems to be hit or miss on them, and the ones stamped with JMP are definitely raved about. When i come home this afternoon ill shave with it and see for sure, but comparing it to some of my other razors that give great shaves I feel it will as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhop66
First VERY gentle attempt (5-10-Nakayama) was a complete and utter failure..
The blade "Sounds" weird when strummed, the bevel looks "Off" too, will attempt a slightly more corrective approach tonight and see what happens... :(
So i apologize i was not able to shave with it as soon as i liked do to school, but when i did look at it a little closer i realized the toe was not taking an edge like the rest of the blade. So i went back to the hones on the bevel setter and was cutting hair all the way at the toe. I went through the routine and it is now shave ready. The shave this morning was good, but i think it can be better so im going to spend some more time on the hones. I have been thinking more about this and have some ideas. Im no expert so dont take this as hard facts. They seem to say that the sello oro without the JMP stamps are of lesser quality, with them being a hit or miss type deal. Mine has the black cello oro box and the lettering on the box is a goldwash in color. I have seen some on the bay that are the same box, same font style and size, but the lettering color is more of a bronze. Could be something, maybe not, im just doing some investigative thinking on the matter. I guess the answer will come soon enough from Glen.
I'm waited with bated breath, as they say. I just read zigzagpapa's refund policy on ebay and he doesn't refund new blades, no matter the reason and this was NOS. I sent him a message telling him of my problems, anyhow.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Yeah those black "Sello Oro" box Filarmonica's can come with many issues best left alone in my view look out for the vintage blades with the JMP stamp worth going the extra yard to get hold of one.
Ive read a few times about Sello Oro Fillarmonicas that they can be a bit off, I must have been lucky, I got two from jappanippon a few years ago when I was a bit green and brought lots of razors on impulse. One a medallion tauring and a #14 doble temple, both great razors that produce amazing shaves. I think that its very much luck of the draw and I wouldn't take the gamble again.Quote:
Originally Posted by celticcrusader
Glen is sending back the Muleta. He thinks the grind is the problem.
Follow up -
Three tries with this razor and finally I gave it up,
#1 I posted above
#2 Started with a Chosera 1-5-10 from a full hard bevel set to straighten out the bevel and cut to new steel finished on a Zulu but again the front of the edge just would hold the edge
#3 Again Chosera 1-5 from a bevel set.. Added a second layer of tape and set a micro bevel with the 10 and the Zulu again the front of the blade had issues, but this was the best edge I got out of it..
Thoughts:
I think it is the grind, I could be wrong but that is the feel I get for it since the back half of the blade holds the edge and the front doesn't .. If it is the grind then more honing perhaps after a bit of breadkinfing might hit into a slightly thicker portion of the blade and the edge will hold..
:shrug:
One thing to keep in mind, out of thousands of razors, I have run into very very few Vintage razors that have not eventually popped an edge, an actual dud razor is pretty rare IME anyway.. In the words of my oh so smart friend here on SRP Jimbo "Glen that isn't a percentage it is a statistical anomaly" or some such smart guy words hehehe
Back in the day Glen,I could do alot of things I cannot do today,Your getting older my friend,perhaps you have lost your touch:)
Im probably stating the obvious but I'd contact the seller, explain the circumstances and try and get a refund despite what his return policy is. Ebay can also sort problems out if you want to go down that route.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindyhop66
Best of luck.
I did message the seller and he just said thank you for the information. As Glen says, the razor is new and was not advertised as shave ready, so I don't know that ebay would do anything. I've bought several NOS Japanese razors for good prices from the same seller and they are wonderful razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by markbignosekelly
Maybe im different but if I sell anything on ebay I wouldn't hesitate refunding money if my customer wasn't happy. You've been sold an item that doesn't perform its basic function. I feel for you buddy. Good luck whatever the outcome.
Some people have waze,some do not.I can hone that razor no prob,send it to me:)
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../sparks001.jpg